Splat Tag to lower it's RULES on Gun Rate Of Fire [Archive]

slick assasin

01-03-2009, 10:28 AM

So the bps rules are being put in place to protect new players? I guess I understand the logic behind this but I don't necessarily agree with it. To be honest, the people I get overshot by the most are noobs with rentals who don't know what a marker in the air means. They seem to think that if someone is still moving they are still playing. I guess to me it would make more sense and probably be easier to regulate overshooting by having the refs actualy pull players for it rather than try to limit rate of fire.
I am all for promoting the sport and trying to make it fun for everyone, but by taking away things that are "fun" for a lot of people you are going to hurt the sport as well. I remember when I first started playing I couldn't wait to get an e-trigger for my spyder so I could shoot faster like a lot of the other players. I guess I wasn't intimidated or scared by it but rather excited by the idea. I guess from experiance I'd have to say that a player who isn't going to play because other players have faster markers is going to find 100 other reasons not to play as well.
I'm not saying all this because I'm a "spray n pray player" because I'm not. I have had my marker capped at 15bps since I bought it and I never take it off semi even at fields where it's allowed. I just think these kinds of rules are benefiting new players much more than they are veteran players.
I'm not going to stop going to fields that limit rof to 10bps because it is not an enormous deal to me, but I just wanted to add my two cents.
It just sucks that this rule basicly puts my ego on the same level as a $60 spyder.

Brutis

01-03-2009, 10:50 AM

Let the crying begin. baby:)

How true, Darrin.
And they all say "Yeah, I'm with you D, but there's this, and this, and, baby:)"
Now if you could only get players to walk after they're eliminated, we'd be making progress. For the record, I played the entire 2008 season with a revy on my Angel.

nchittendon

01-03-2009, 11:08 AM

I don't think it's so much "behind Darrin." It's a PSP thing, and Darrin is just protecting his investment. So, gee, if I wanna play at Splat Tag, I guess I have to be behind it, eh?

Thalion

01-03-2009, 11:17 AM

I am all for promoting the sport and trying to make it fun for everyone, but by taking away things that are "fun" for a lot of people you are going to hurt the sport as well. I remember when I first started playing I couldn't wait to get an e-trigger for my spyder so I could shoot faster like a lot of the other players. I guess I wasn't intimidated or scared by it but rather excited by the idea. I guess from experiance I'd have to say that a player who isn't going to play because other players have faster markers is going to find 100 other reasons not to play as well.

I'm also willing to bet that etrigger wouldn't have been as big a deal to you if the "other players" weren't shooting as fast.

I just think these kinds of rules are benefiting new players much more than they are veteran players.
I'm not going to stop going to fields that limit rof to 10bps because it is not an enormous deal to me, but I just wanted to add my two cents.
It just sucks that this rule basicly puts my ego on the same level as a $60 spyder.

You're first sentence here is correct - it is to benefit the new players. New players are the lifeblood of the sport, it's the only way for paintball to grow. The whole point is to give the new players some benefit.

As far as the ego/spyder comment, do you really believe the only benefit of an Ego over the spyder is rate of fire? There's other reasons in my mind for higher quality guns over blowbacks.

Unintentional overshooting (from a new player's perspective) happens all the time when there's paint flying. You may know you're in control and can stop firing at any time, but to the new player's perception, they've just been hit four times when one or two would do because of the "rate of fire." They don't know that you're in control because they're not you and because they're new. In terms of the new player returning, it doesn't matter what happened, but rather what was perceived to have happened. Perception is everything -- any number of things can happen, but you'll know you were right because you were there. At the same time, someone else will know something else, and be equally valid in their minds.

Psychology lecture over. Sorry about that, just thought I'd point out some of the science behind different perspectives that technically can be equally valid.

spock

01-03-2009, 12:21 PM

I agree with MondoMor how do you check A-5s with responce triggers?
hit that sweet spot now its full auto...

EZD

01-03-2009, 01:44 PM

No hoppers will be banned and we will be working on rules for other types of guns like RT's.

A lot of other players see and hear faster shooting guns and feel that they have to go get a faster shooting.

Other the years the ROF limit has just kept climbing. What is the point. There are guns that can shoot over 30bps.

And now there are guns that shoot autonomously.

What would happen to paintball if no limits wee set up.

Splat Tag feels the human factor of paintball should always the most important thing.

Where is the sport in a gun that shoots a stream of paint? (Deer hunting with a machine gun. tongue:)

AKA

01-03-2009, 02:18 PM

I agree with MondoMor how do you check A-5s with responce triggers?
hit that sweet spot now its full auto...

Hey now, I just put one on this winter, given to me by one of the PBPBC Members That went Pump.:D I have only tested it out, and was going to keep it at a low rate anyhow.;) I will still use my PCS*5 that I won at HFTC '06 for Jungle-Rumbles though.:D Yes it still works.;)
Anyway, good topic for the '09 Season, lots of views on this. For those who had been playing Woods/Scenario Ball have seen it coming but just wondered how long before it was brought up or changed.:eek:
I myself totally enjoy shooting up the paint, but am carefull about how and when I do. Its usually to buy myself some cover fire when working alone against another heavy shooter. But there is alot of players that don't see the need to ever let up on the trigg. to listen for a "I'm Hit you #@&*%, and so on. A slower rate of Fire is not bad really, if everyone was to be held to it. It will teach you how to Play the Player rather than just Spray the Player.:scared0012:
I know other people here try recruiting thier friends, family (Girl Friends, Wives, son's or daughters) to the Game, but back in your mind is a hesitation about putting them out there where even You sometimes Fear to Tread.:eek:
Just thought I'd add my 2 cents, since this topic also applies to me, and I'll keep playen because I love it./AKA

slick assasin

01-03-2009, 03:32 PM

To respond to Thalion's question, yes, I know there is much more to high end markers than just speed. I haven't bought any of my markers (with exception to my first spyder) for speed but rather for consistancy, accuracy and dependability.
Second, would I have bought the e-trigger if I had not seen someone else using something similar? Probably not because I wouldn't have known they existed. But if that logic were entirely true than no one in paintball should be using electros. To the average new player, however, speed and color is the only differentiating factor they see when looking at the aray of markers at a field.
Basicly what this rule is doing is making all markers equal rof wise, correct?
What about Mags and Autocockers? Many of them are capable of rates of fire near 15bps? They are all mechanical, are they going to be banned because you can't cap the rate of fire? So my electro has to be capped but your mech doesn't?
I'm in no way trying to start a fight here, just trying to get the logic. Everyone says new players are the lifeblood of paintball and that is probably partially true. I would argue that new players are the lifeblood of paintball fields more than the sport itself. Rental players bring in much more money than those of us who have our own gear and paint, plain and simple. When it comes to the sport however, I can promise veteran players put much more money into the industry and without the industry paintball would dry up.
I am not saying I am behing or against Darin on this decision because obviously I don't completely agree with it. Do I stil think Darin is a great guy? Do I think Splat tag is hands down the nicest, best run, best reffed field around? Absolutely, and I will continue to play there until I am not able to play pb any longer no matter what the rule changes.
As far as new players not playing because they get overshot, I guess that depends on the player. My wife plays with us all the time and she loves it, even when she gets shot up and she has been overshot more than once. If you're worried about the pain then you are in the wrong sport. Don't ruin it for the people who don't mind it.

But yeah, I don't agree with the rule, but I will deffinately abide by it. I'm just glad it isn't 9bps because my board will only go down to 10bps with eyes on. I'd hate to have to bust out the spyder.

triggerhappyshawn

01-03-2009, 03:58 PM

The PSP has lowered their limits to 10pbs, 12bps for Pro players.

A lot of fields will be following this Rule change.

Splat Tag raised our rules on ROF a few years back because most players with electronic guns had them set at 15-16bps and a lot of players were getting mad having to change their guns for our field and then having to change them back to play at other fields and tournament.

Most local tournaments and fields will most likely be lowering it's ROF to match.

Even if Splat Tag is the only field to change that ok too.

psp = speedball
splat tag = woodsball

You dont have a speedball course at your field, Why would you follow the rules of a speedball leauge.

I dont care what anybody says, Over shooting isnt the reason why newer players decide not to play again. Its the cost of paintball. Which i believe has nothing to do with the players, Its because of the field owners.

I have looked at reciepts and stuff like that from certain fields And I know that the price that field owners are charging people for paint is ALMOST 100% mark up from what the case of paint cost wholesale. EX: A case of paint roughly cost 30 dollars wholesale, And field owners sell it for 65.

My 2 cents

Bunker Busters

01-03-2009, 05:07 PM

I have to admit I am a little bummed about it because it is fun every once in a while to bump up the bps and throw some paint. it will be nice to start seeing players start relying more on tactics and team members then heavy amounts of paint.

EZD

01-03-2009, 05:34 PM

All great feed back.

Don't worry we will must likely be the only field lowering it's ROF to 10bps.
And once again let me say "BACK TO 10bps".

Yes Splat Tag is a woodsball field and in most part does not care what the PSP Rules are, but this make it a prefect time to change back.

This rule change has little to do with new players. 95% of all new players at Splat Tag are in Private Groups. This Rule change applies to all games at Splat Tag including Jungle Rumbles.

10 balls per second is very fast!! Try counting to 10, can anyone do it under 1 second. NO.

A limit of 10bps is not going to stop players for over shooting. The rule change is not for that either.

It's all about what "I" think makes paintball fun. Thats why I started Splat Tag. After playing at field all around MN and the US for 10 years I thought I could do better then whats was out there. Splat Tag is not the best but we always strive to be.

The same with having large wooded fields (We have on course that is 20 acres) when I open up everyone told me to divide it up and make a bunch of smaller field to run more groups, that I would make more money. Or the fields should not be so thick.

Over the years I have played at over 50 different paintball fields and I am always comparing and looking for what I think would make the games better.

I believe it's not the GUN that makes the player! recon:)

slick assasin

01-03-2009, 06:37 PM

I believe it's not the GUN that makes the player! recon:)

Deffinately true! But the gun can sure make the player a lot happier player, and happy players make good players.

Mustangman

01-03-2009, 07:04 PM

Deffinately true! But the gun can sure make the player a lot happier player, and happy players make good players.

the thing with this statement is what is the basis for what is wrong with our economy and the world in general. not to wax philisophical, but if we are happy with what we have we have no need for excess. if people can learn to make do with what we have, then when we are able to move onto something better we won't abuse it. don't take this as a personal attack, just a philisophical approach to life and paintball. like I tel lmy kids, if you aren't happy with what you have now, having the next newest, greatest, best thing won't make you happy either.

prodigy

01-03-2009, 08:13 PM

psp = speedball
splat tag = woodsball

You dont have a speedball course at your field, Why would you follow the rules of a speedball leauge.

I dont care what anybody says, Over shooting isnt the reason why newer players decide not to play again. Its the cost of paintball. Which i believe has nothing to do with the players, Its because of the field owners.

I have looked at reciepts and stuff like that from certain fields And I know that the price that field owners are charging people for paint is ALMOST 100% mark up from what the case of paint cost wholesale. EX: A case of paint roughly cost 30 dollars wholesale, And field owners sell it for 65.

My 2 cents

This is what im thinking(if it dose any good), Yes there are some hybrid feilds at splattag that are a speedball/woodsball mix but thats not the reason for the turn down. If u like speedball just because u can waste paint then y r u here.

alot of players who dont like this are
Accuracy by ammount>Accuracy by skill.

As for new players not comeing back is because of "HOW MUCH IT HURTS". when ever i hear Scrubs talking its about how much it hurts. Also for the cost thing the AVERAGE AGE OF A PAINTBALLER IS 18. there for the greatter majority of players are high school(have a job and nothing but or love for the sport 2 spend wages on) or collage kids(who are always broke).

Any good baller knows where to by good cheep paint. Any Scrub dosent mind paying for cheep hot spots or monster cuz they just love shooting the gun.

Not to paint u as the NME but its the truth.

slick assasin

01-03-2009, 09:40 PM

the thing with this statement is what is the basis for what is wrong with our economy and the world in general.

I get that, but it is one thing to buy an expensive marker because you think it will make you better, it is an entirely different thing in my case for instance to buy a better marker because it will perform better than what I have and I can afford it. I understand most newer and even a lot of seasoned players can't afford expensive gear. I started playing paintball in college and a spyder was all I could afford. I am now a few years out of college and have a good job and a steady income so I can afford better equipment. I have since upgraded a couple times and I am very happy with my current setup. I understand the idea that so many people have that they always have to have the latest, greatest and the best. That idea as you stated, is "what is wrong with the economy and the world in general". There is nothing wrong with spending money on good gear as long as you can afford it, it's when you can't afford what you are buying that you are getting yourself into trouble. Personaly, paintball and bass fishing are the only things I spend money on besides my family and everyday expenses. I don't drink or smoke or go to movies or anything like that because I prefer to do other things and put my money to better use elsewhere.
I made that statement as a joke because I agreed with Darins quote, not because I think an expensive marker will make you a better player.

Mustangman

01-03-2009, 10:17 PM

again, SA, wasn't a personal attack just an observation. I am in the same boat as you, having been playing now for the better part of 12 yrs I have graduated into better equipment and currently carry a Tac-One with ULT and qloaded. my Tac is capable of 15-20bps without any problem. I understand the stance that if you have the ability to afford higher end equipment you want to use it, but we also have to remember the new or inexperienced players who look to us as examples of how to play and treat other players. Do you really need 20balls in the air to get some body out when it can be done with 3-4? i understand suppresive fire as well, but that isn't necessary in every situation. so yeah, the 10 bps rule may irritate a few of us, but in the end will be better for the sport in general.

badmoon

01-03-2009, 10:31 PM

Sarge

01-03-2009, 11:20 PM

what ever ill still kill people the same i fallow my boss on this one. speed dont matter you just got to rely on your skill now. wich makes me more dangerous. also back to the land of the revy. horay:D ultimitly i really dont care because i can stil play paintball.

As long as we have paintballs and markers to shoot them with I'm fine. I just think we're going to hear a lot of whining and bitching at open play.

Ish

01-04-2009, 12:09 AM

10 bps sounds good, still fast enough to spray and pray and have supressing fire.

me personly i like to shoot fast but with any sport/game there are always rules one must follow..

JJohnson

01-04-2009, 12:29 AM

10 bps sounds ok to me. I don't have very fast fingers, so even with my PM6 I should be ok. I always use semi anyway, even though I got a PSP ramping board with it.

Lol, come to think of it, PSP has changed ramping speeds several times since I got that board. I think the board will do 15 bps, that's what PSP was a few years ago right?

TeaBuffalo

01-04-2009, 12:59 AM

So if you have an electro and it doesn't have an option below 15bps are you pretty much SOL?

As for hearing a lot of whining and bitching, you can't cater to one type of player without pissing the others off. So instead of having the elitist "skill>volume" people complaining, now we have everyone else doing it.

My only complaint will be across the board ROF capping. If a ROF cap is in place, it shouldn't just be for Electro's.

Why do people get overshot? More times than not it is because they don't call themselves out right away. I'm sorry, but if you make no movement to get off the field, or say something, I'm going to shoot you again, and this time you're going to get it until you do something that let's me know you are out. I've had WAY too many people return fire after they were already hit.

Overshooting is not wrecking new players, nor do I believe that new players are the most important thing. New players are not being TAUGHT anything about the game. They are handed a gun and told that when they get hit, they are out. Ten minutes later they get hit 4 times and suddenly they are mad. They don't know any better. Every time I get a new player to a local game I give them the basics of what to expect. One of the first things I tell them is that if they get hit one to five times, that's normal. You WILL get shot in this game, frequently more than once.

It is now known that high-end guns and fast rates of fire have stopped the grown of paintball.

How much ESPN coverage did you see when the top of the line marker was a mechanical Autococker?

According to the PSP:
1998 - 5.9 M players
2002 - 8.7M
2003 - 10.5M
2010 - Estimates are over 20M

I don't see how fast guns are hurting the sport at all.

The PSP is NOT reducing the ROF cap because skill>volume, they are not doing it because people are getting overshot. Facts. They ARE doing it, and I quote:
The following changes are made with the intent to help teams compete in our tournament series despite the uncertain economic future faced by our industry and our society as a whole.

Our hope is that with these changes, teams and sponsors will recognize a significant savings in costs associated with competing at the highest level of tournament play, while not sacrificing the competitive integrity of our tournament series.

They are doing it because paintball is too expensive. Paintball is an expensive hobby, and as such is one of the first things cut from the budget when things get tight.

On a side note, I still can't believe "c r a p" is censored, but bitching is not.

badmoon

01-04-2009, 02:18 AM

Why do people get overshot? More times than not it is because they don't call themselves out right away. I'm sorry, but if you make no movement to get off the field, or say something, I'm going to shoot you again, and this time you're going to get it until you do something that let's me know you are out. I've had WAY too many people return fire after they were already hit.

it could also be said that doing things like that is bad but then again any one can take say and do thing wich are perseved wrong by people in the wrong mind set i have seen it happen alot. people sometimes freaze up or litterly dont know what to do even after they have been told lots. then they get shot again. it seems milicious to them. even thou its not. so really all that matters is the feilds are still open the tourneys are running and we all get to play. sometime we just got to rember its a game. pluse in the long run we save money on paint so i really dont care. speed down= less paint, lesspaint= more money, more money = more cigaretts. and the world is a better place for kids. lolz no dodgy.:character00118::D:rolleye0018:tough:)

EZD

01-04-2009, 02:59 AM

4,860,000 in 2006
5,476,000 in 2007
2008 SGMA Report.

The PSP web site has some great hype :) I like the part about paintball being around for 30 years and that paintball will have over 20,000,000 players in 2010.

Over half only play paintball once.
This tell us that more people are playing paintball once each year.
It does not tell us if more people are playing. ;)

evolkers2003

01-04-2009, 03:47 AM

well, its helps that paintball is a really hard sport to predict how many people are playing. I remember always seeing reports in like APG that said, "Paintball hits 10 million!" Then like a year ago i seen an article that said it was like half of what we previously thought.

WreckingCrew

01-04-2009, 05:39 AM

Well my 2cents is that I own a DT and for the most part i am very light on the triggers and if either 1 of my markers is shooting over 10 BPS i would be very suprised you have to crank like a madman to get over that as anyone with a DT can agree. and besides that if you go past that you get all kinds of breakage and other undesired effects and 50% of the time us DT owners are shooting air anyways its up to you to decide which 50% that is :)

slick assasin

01-04-2009, 09:54 AM

On a side note, I still can't believe "c r a p" is censored, but bitching is not.

Yeah, that shocked me too! Made it look like I actually said something offensive.

nchittendon

01-04-2009, 10:03 AM

I love high BPS in the woods. When we get some guys with electros, I limit the team to Pistols only, just to prove a point. Besides that, it helps my team improve their skills when they are severely out-gunned. It doesn't matter to us what the BPS is, we'll be there regardless.

slick assasin

01-04-2009, 10:41 AM

Ok, so we all know the rule is going to stay no matter what. I don't really care that I can't shoot 15bps because I rarely reach those speeds anyways so 10 is really not a huge deal. What I am worried about, as I stated before, is how in the world are the fields going to enforce these rules? The rules weren't enforced very well before when the cap was 15pbs so how can you tell me the refs are going to be able to identify a marker shooting over 10bps?
I played one walk on last year where we were playing "urban" and I took half dozen balls all of which broke. On the way out I asked the ref "so what exactly are the overshooting rules here" to which said ref replied "well, a lot of the markers here can shoot over 15bps so it's hard for some people to stop shooting you sometimes". I just shook my head and walked away.
I know not all refs are this ignorant but there are some out there that don't have a clue as it is and don't enforce the rules that are already in place.
So all electros need to be capped at 10bps correct? How will you know if they are? Most tournament cap modes lock at either 13.3 or 15, so to set a marker at 10bps you will have to have it unlocked. So with the exception of a few markers the unlocked modes can be changed on the fly.
So the refs would need to be able to identify markers firing faster than 10bps they would have to get to those players, argue with them and check the marker before they switched them back. Even if they suspect a marker shooting faster how are they going to prove it? It is impossible for every ref to know the functions on every board on every marker well enough to identify which rof mode it is in. So they would have to take the marker and shoot it themselves to see if it exceedes 10bps. I know "most" of the refs at ST are great players and and are capable of firing a marker faster than 10bps, but what about the ones who can't?
This was easier with a 15bps cap because most people can't walk a trigger much faster than that so refs more or less just had to look for ramping, exc.
I understand there will always be people wo try to get around the rules this being no exception and it will ultimately come down to people just being honest.
However, I don't really think electro players are going to be the biggest problem or even the biggest whiners. Which brings me to my second point.
How are you going to regulate mechanical markers and response triggers? The only way to keep all mechs from breaking the rof rule is to require all mechanical markers and markers that use response triggers to use gravity feed hoppers. The problem with this is most markers with response triggers are a-5's which obviously use the cyclone hopper system which can be set up to feed balls WAY over 10bps. So what do you tell these guys? Because there are just as many people walking around with a-5's, x-7's and 98's as there are electros.
At least with a rof cap at 15 even if people were shooting their fastest they usually weren't breaking the rule. With 10 bps any marker short of a stock spyder mech (my old spyder extra will do 7bps with the mech trigger) will be able to fire over 10bps. I am just really currious how this will be enforced? And what is going to happen when every other person who gets eliminated claims the person who shot him was shooting too fast and wants the ref to check his marker?

TeaBuffalo

01-04-2009, 12:01 PM

I have no argument that the PSP numbers are not accurate, but I don't believe that paintball isn't growing as a whole. Yes, the economy sucks, and like everything else paintball is in a bit of a recession, but overall it's definitely growing.

"Only half the people that try it come back"

This doesn't surprise me at all. 25% probably don't like it, and 25% can't afford it. Paintball is expensive and people have other hobbies. If they aren't willing to move paintball to the top of the hobby list, then they probably aren't going to play. My brother-in-law loves to play paintball, but he loves hunting and fishing more, so he doesn't play paintball.

people sometimes freaze up or litterly dont know what to do even after they have been told lots. then they get shot again. it seems milicious to them. even thou its not.

This reinforces my point about new players going in blind as to what will happen. They need to know what they are getting into. They need to expect more paint to come at them if they don't call themselves out right away. You can pretty much guarantee that they will call themselves out right away if the last time they didn't and they got shot too many times.

Players also need to open their eyes and ears on the field. When someone raises their hand or gun, stop shooting. This whole topic being targeted to electro's is just ridiculous. It should be targeted to people that aren't paying any attention. I can't count how many times I've had to yell (scream) at people near me that won't stop shooting even though someone has raised their hand/gun and even started walking away. And it is almost never an electro doing it.

Somebody brought up tanks, ain't that the truth. Nine times out of ten I've come across a tank I want to beat the living tar out of the trigger happy moron that is running the turret. It's a nice idea, really it is, but imho they should have heavy ROF restrictions. (i.e. a total of 15bps, not 4 guns shooting 15bps)

I also repost my first question:
If I have an electro that cannot be set below 15, does that mean I'm not coming to Hudson anymore because I can't use it?

MondoMor

01-04-2009, 12:13 PM

I also repost my first question:
If I have an electro that cannot be set below 15, does that mean I'm not coming to Hudson anymore because I can't use it?
If you insist on seeing this rule as excluding you, then it does exclude you. If you choose to see it as something you can overcome, there are options:

1) surely the gun has a semi-auto only mode? If you can really sustain > 10bps in semi with your fingers, then you'll need a capped board. Maybe you could shoot with just one finger instead of two.

2) if the board's (or gun's) manufacturer is still in business, contact them if they have revised code they could flash.

3) Scenario Dreams sells a Universal T-board (http://scenariodreams.com/productpages/universaltboard.htm). If you don't want to install it, they'll do it for a fee. The board has a capped semi mode, plus all the ramping options you could want. I've dealt with Damon before; he's great to talk to and super helpful if he's treated with any amount of respect.

It's all in your point of view. It's a rule to adapt to, but it may take some creativity.

I understand there will always be people wo try to get around the rules this being no exception and it will ultimately come down to people just being honest.

Recreational paintball as a sport will only grow and survive with honest players. There are never enough refs to check each and every player for hits, nor can they chrono every gun and enforce all rules perfectly.

Without honesty, paintball is just like kids playing "guns" with toys. "I HIT YOU FIRST!" "NO I SHOT YOU FIRST!" It's chaos, and the fun goes away quickly.

Honesty turns paintball from a silly game into a sport.

TeaBuffalo

01-04-2009, 01:47 PM

It's not so much I'm looking for the exclusion, because that would go against that fact that I think there should be no exceptions. I bring it up just to point out that there are in fact markers out there that do not support being capped at 10. The ROF is being dropped by the PSP to make it more affordable, but now I have to buy a new board to follow the rule.

I want to be clear, I'm not complaining but clearly I don't agree with the change. I don't agree that it will help cure 'overshooting' either. If I attend any games I will follow any and all rules set by the staff, as I do every game I go to. I enjoy games at Splat-Tag and so does the rest of my crew. Great field, friendly staff.

slick assasin

01-04-2009, 03:41 PM

1) surely the gun has a semi-auto only mode? If you can really sustain > 10bps in semi with your fingers, then you'll need a capped board. Maybe you could shoot with just one finger instead of two.

.

Shooting with one finger might lower the rate of fire, but it doesn't keep the marker from shooting more than 10bps. If that were the easy solution than I would set my rof to 30 and only use one finger when the refs were around. ( I wouldn't actually do that I am just trying to make a point.)
And I think pretty much everyone can sustain rof to 10. The idea of "just get a capped board" doesn't work because not all boards cap that low. Yes, you can set the board that low, but with a few pushes of a button you are right back to a higher rof.
As far as the idea of just buying a new board, have you seen the price of boards lately? Lowering rof isn't going to save anyone money if everyone has to buy a new board to cap at 10.
And like I said previously, I can promise you that electros are not going to be the problem. You go tell that guy in cammo face paint and full tactical gear that he can't use the response trigger on his a-5 because I'm sure not going to. 15bps is reasonable because most mech markers can't go more than a couple bps faster than that so it is easier to regulate. It also keeps things fair. What do you think is going to happen if you tell a guy with a Tac-one that he can only use a gravity feed hopper? He's going to quickly point out that the guy over there has an ego with rotor and he is allowed to use it. See what I'm saying?

Shaman

01-04-2009, 06:42 PM

Just for your information, here is a video demonstration of ROF: 15, 13, 12, and 10 bps (proposals for the PSP 2009)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bdD-BzvZ-0

Thalion

01-04-2009, 07:50 PM

Thanks for the link Mitch

slick assasin

01-04-2009, 08:37 PM

Just for your information, here is a video demonstration of ROF: 15, 13, 12, and 10 bps (proposals for the PSP 2009)

Deffinately a noticable differance between 15 and 10

MondoMor

01-04-2009, 08:37 PM

And like I said previously, I can promise you that electros are not going to be the problem. You go tell that guy in cammo face paint and full tactical gear that he can't use the response trigger on his a-5 because I'm sure not going to.
Ain't that the truth. :)

One way to look at the expense of a new board is that even the expensive ones* cost about the same as three cases of paint. If you play a lot but shoot as much as 33% less (from 15bps to 10bps), it shouldn't take too long to recoup the investment. Occasional players with old or unflashable boards will still be stuck, though.

Anyway, here's hoping everyone will be understanding and cool-headed in the first few games next year as the refs and players adapt.:scared0012:

* I'm seeing ~$170 for a Tadao Yakuza board for my 'cocker, for instance.

Sarge

01-04-2009, 09:01 PM

Thanks for the vid shaman. I really think that 12 bps would be a better choice. Not only because it is still relatively slow, but because most boards have 12 bps as an option.

*mess*Chain_gang

01-04-2009, 09:43 PM

Thanks for the vid shaman. I really think that 12 bps would be a better choice. Not only because it is still relatively slow, but because most boards have 12 bps as an option.

i think i would also like 12 but wats the diff between 10 and 12

slick assasin

01-04-2009, 10:08 PM

[QUOTE=MondoMor;8701]One way to look at the expense of a new board is that even the expensive ones* cost about the same as three cases of paint. If you play a lot but shoot as much as 33% less (from 15bps to 10bps), it shouldn't take too long to recoup the investment. Occasional players with old or unflashable boards will still be stuck, though.

Anyway, here's hoping everyone will be understanding and cool-headed in the first few games next year as the refs and players adapt.:scared0012:

I personaly don't have to update the boards on any of my markers and my primary marker can be locked at 10 so it's not an issue for me. I just feel for the people who would have to upgrade.

I am not upset and will have no issues when I play at ST. Besides, I'm so pumped for the season to begin I would probably be happy with a slingshot right now.

Bizzare87

01-05-2009, 02:08 AM

All them there fancy halos and what not are garbage. Get your revys ready everyone. YAY!!!!!! I like the rule change cheaper paint bills.

Erndogg

01-05-2009, 02:42 AM

I like the rule change cheaper paint bills.

I would have to agree

slick assasin

01-05-2009, 08:26 AM

I like the rule change cheaper paint bills.

I'm sure the people who were actually shooting 15bps weren't too concerned with paint prices.

On a similar note, if people are shooting less paint that means they are buying less paint, correct? So paint companys and field owners will be making less money off of paint sales thus lowering their profits. So wont that hurt paintball rather than help it?
I guess I always brought 2 or 3 cases to big games, if I went throught it then I went through it, If I didn't then I didn't. I will stil bring just as much paint even with the rule changes and pretty much everyone I know will do the same. I guess if people want to shoot more paint and spend the money than that is up to them, those people are going to play no matter what. I guess I don't see how it is really going to make paintball more affordable by trying to make people who don't care how much they are spending on paint shoot less.
If the arguement then becomes, "well, when new players see other players shooting a lot they think they have too", than that is that players problem. If they want to shoot more, than they need to pay more. I worked full time in highschool so I could pay for my hobbies, there are plenty of jobs out there for teens if they want to make some extra cash. And don't give me this "bad economy" garbage because there isn't a culvers or mcdonalds out there that doesn't have a "help wanted" sign out front.
People need to realize if they want to have something someone else has then they need to work for it insted of expecting everyone else to lower their standards to cater to them. I mean, I'd love a brand new crew cab Sierra 2500 but it's just not in the budget right now. So should everyone with a new Sierra be forced to remove their suspention and put 15" wheels on their trucks just because they have one and I don't? See what I'm saying? Catering to the people in a sport who spend the least ammount of money isn't going to help anything.
Once again, just my opinion.

EZD

01-05-2009, 10:55 AM

I find most players have A limit of paintballs they will shoot each time they play. Almost always base on the total amount of money they are willing to spend on paintballs. For a few it may make it cheaper but for most it will keep them playing longer. Another plus for the players.

badmoon

01-05-2009, 01:19 PM

I want to be clear, I'm not complaining but clearly I don't agree with the change. I don't agree that it will help cure 'overshooting' either.

i agree whole heartedly. for real the only thing that will cure over shooting is not being so jumpy behind the trigger.:)

cutstep

01-05-2009, 01:31 PM

what is to be done with the response triggers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeC549Ci-3c&feature=related
mechanical automag 34 bps

JJohnson

01-05-2009, 02:41 PM

what is to be done with the response triggers?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeC549Ci-3c&feature=related
mechanical automag 34 bps

:scared0012: Wow....he found the sweet spot on that thing....

cutstep

01-05-2009, 03:04 PM

^^^yes he did..... the response guys with tippmanns can shoot about 20 bps as well, some even faster

on another note.... is this for all games played out at the field? what about the sppl events?

Sarge

01-05-2009, 03:58 PM

i think i would also like 12 but wats the diff between 10 and 12

It would be a lot easier because most boards have 12 as an option.

Oldest Sage

01-05-2009, 04:33 PM

Does this mean I need to get an autotrigger on my pump to keep up? Seriously, I don't think it will matter to lots of folks.

Bunker Busters

01-05-2009, 05:16 PM

I dont think 10 bps will be the problem with any serious player but rather how to cap a mech. and how this rule will be enforced fairly for both mech. and electro.

Sarge

01-05-2009, 06:15 PM

I dont think 10 bps will be the problem with any serious player but rather how to cap a mech. and how this rule will be enforced fairly for both mech. and electro.

Well I work as a paintball ref if someone was shooting over and couldn't switch their board I'd let them use a gravity fed hopper.

spock

01-05-2009, 07:12 PM

well at least if my spendy hopper goes down I can replace it with a revy now..I have no problem with turning down the angels. i just want to see an even playing field..

I also play pump so I can do the job with one ball.laughing:)

slick assasin

01-05-2009, 08:47 PM

Well I work at splattag and if I see an electric settup while working I'll switch them to a gravity feed shake and bake. :)

You will put the gravity feed on a mech? Or an electro?

Sarge

01-05-2009, 09:54 PM

You will put the gravity feed on a mech? Or an electro?

Either that are shooting too fast. If it's an A-5 with a cyclone, we will work something out. (if they have another gun, rental, if they can take it off)

slick assasin

01-05-2009, 10:05 PM

Either that are shooting too fast. If it's an A-5 with a cyclone, we will work something out. (if they have another gun, rental, if they can take it off)

The only way to work it out will be to take it away. Good luck to ya.

Sarge

01-05-2009, 10:19 PM

The only way to work it out will be to take it away. Good luck to ya.

lol I think we're going to need it. I don't have much say in the matter, but I'll support Darrin's new rule as an employee.

slick assasin

01-05-2009, 10:34 PM

No hoppers will be banned

Darrin says no hoppers will be banned so it would be kind of hard to tell someone they couldn't use whatever hopper they are using if it's not actually against the rules.

This is not a personal attack by any means so please don't take it the wrong way. I have nothing against any of the refs at splat tag. You guys all do a great job! I'm just pointing out what will be an obvious argument from mech gun owners.
The rules need to be able to apply to everyone without special exception and it doesn't seem like that is possible.
See, its easy for PSP to enforce these rules because everyone in the leauge uses electros, where as half the people at ST use mechs.
I really do feel for you guys. You'll be earning your $ this summer. Just please be careful with overboard milsim guy because you know he's carrying a k-bar under his vest and he's not going to be happy when you tell him he needs to use a rental.
On a lighter note. I'm looking forward to playing with you guys at HFTC this year, I'm sure we'll be sharing the front lines.

Sarge

01-05-2009, 10:39 PM

Darrin says no hoppers will be banned so it would be kind of hard to tell someone they couldn't use whatever hopper they are using if it's not actually against the rules.

This is not a personal attack by any means so please don't take it the wrong way. I have nothing against any of the refs at splat tag. You guys all do a great job! I'm just pointing out what will be an obvious argument from mech gun owners.
The rules need to be able to apply to everyone without special exception and it doesn't seem like that is possible.
See, its easy for PSP to enforce these rules because everyone in the leauge uses electros, where as half the people at ST use mechs.
I really do feel for you guys. You'll be earning your $ this summer. Just please be careful with overboard milsim guy because you know he's carrying a k-bar under his vest and he's not going to be happy when you tell him he needs to use a rental.
On a lighter note. I'm looking forward to playing with you guys at HFTC this year, I'm sure we'll be sharing the front lines.

lol I know he said no hopper bans, but unless he comes up with a better solution, that's what I'll be going with.
(note this isn't official, just throwing out my ideas)

Brent Kotchman

01-05-2009, 11:06 PM

badmoon

01-06-2009, 01:18 AM

mega dittos

badmoon

01-06-2009, 01:20 AM

mega dittos. we fallow the rule changes because its paintball not woodsball or speedball. if the goverment makes a law the states tend to enforce it 2 differnt things same rules.

Brutis

01-06-2009, 06:27 PM

I'm down with it.
Revy's for everyone!
Had nothing but problems with those Halo's.

Sarge

01-07-2009, 10:56 PM

For people who don't want to buy a new board, buy a new hopper. Seriously a revy will only feed around 10 balls per second, so even if your gun can shoot 30 balls a second it doesn't matter because there won't be that many balls fed.

Mustangman

01-08-2009, 02:46 AM

I have a qloader on my W/L Tac-One, how's that going to affect me? can't slap a hopper on it, not unless I wann go gangsta.

Thalion

01-08-2009, 11:31 AM

I have a qloader on my W/L Tac-One, how's that going to affect me? can't slap a hopper on it, not unless I wann go gangsta.

The rules as they currently are published is that it only affects electronic markers. The rules never ban certain hoppers; it was a discussed idea by players who may have an electro without a setting to cap their ROF to the specified level.

Unless Darrin says otherwise, if I were you I'd just come and play and keep your ROF within the electronic marker's allowed limit.

Sandman 26

01-08-2009, 05:52 PM

I just want an answer on how you cap a mechanical to 10 bps...

We all know there are ways to cap electros, now lets talk mech because thats where the true issue lies.

Thalion

01-08-2009, 06:08 PM

I just want an answer on how you cap a mechanical to 10 bps...

We all know there are ways to cap electros, now lets talk mech because thats where the true issue lies.

I see 3 ways to effectively cap a mech. While they technically don't cap a mech the same way an electro would be capped, they're not really any different than chronographs to ensure velocity is within limit.

1. Require a loading system that makes it impractical for anyone with a mech to want to exceed that limit because it'll just be a paint blender anyways. Obviously, I don't believe this to be the solution as it would leave people like Mustangman in trouble.

2. Refuse to admit RTs, just as there is a refusal to admit settings other than semi-auto with electronic markers. I simply cannot think of a person who can fire a mechanical in excess of 10 BPS without the assistance of an RT system.

3. Alternatively to #2, have them adjust the RT to ensure it cannot be sweetspotted in such a way as to exceed the limit. To me, this is no different than a simple chronograph adjustment and enforcement would be about the same difficulty as chronograph limits -- see someone clearly violating it and have them adjust the RT, or random checking.

Sarge

01-08-2009, 06:09 PM

I just want an answer on how you cap a mechanical to 10 bps...

We all know there are ways to cap electros, now lets talk mech because thats where the true issue lies.

I'm with you on that one, capping electros but not mechs makes no since to me when there are automags that can do 15+.

Sandman 26

01-08-2009, 06:29 PM

I think the only way to insure overall fairness is just make everyone use revvy's... thats the only universal way to cap all markers

use the slower electro-hoppers, or gravity feed shake-n-bake em

only way everyone shoots the same speed, because RT's got sweetspots, and any mechanical trigger can be tuned to insanely short pulls

Mustangman

01-08-2009, 06:32 PM

frankly I am already limiting myself, qloader only holds 100 balls and I can only carry 7 pods, with one on the gun. so I am already forcing myself to be more shot selective. granted a qloader can keep up with any marker out there, but having used one off and on for the last couple of years, it's not practical and we all know it. and there are a lot of people out there that can walk a trigger out to 13-14 bps for short bursts, I've seen it.

and if you think limiting people to revvys is the answer you will leave out a group of people, however small who use qloaders. myself and 2 of my teammates run Warp bodied 'Mags with qloaders.

Sandman 26

01-08-2009, 06:48 PM

I had forgotten about Q-loaders, but as you said they can feed easily above that 10bps, which essentially means whatever marker they are put on will be able to fire above that. So, from my idea with hoppers Q-loaders would not be a possibility.

I'm curious what the crew at splat tag has planned for this, and I'm sure they'll come through for us all with something we can be happy with.

Mustangman

01-08-2009, 06:51 PM

well, revvys with an X or is it Z board can feed like 15-17. how you gonna regulate that? and if darrin wants to personally tell me that I am not welcome at his field with my qloader then I would pack up and not come back along with my teammates.

Thalion

01-08-2009, 06:59 PM

I'll repeat what I've said before: the new rules have no hopper restrictions written in them.

Thus, we can still use whatever we so desire: be it a revvy, qloader, halo or otherwise.

Again, the idea of restricting loaders has been discussed by players, and I have yet to see Darrin post on that subject. Until then, it's just players and not policy.

Sandman 26

01-08-2009, 07:02 PM

Yep, like Thalion said

All we're doing is speculating, until we here from Darrin we don't know.

All I was trying to do is speculate, we all got questions we're waiting for answers too. I figure why not try to a logical answer ourselves, but this situation is obviously very complex and I have a feeling there is no straightforward answer to satisfy everyone.

We shall just have to wait and see

cutstep

01-08-2009, 09:21 PM

he stated in the first page that only electroninc markers were affected...... you dont have to worry about qloaders and revvys or any of that.... as long as it doesnt have a battery in the gun then your good...

mags, cocker, and tippmanns, oh my!

Sandman 26

01-08-2009, 09:30 PM

hmm, well cutstep if you're right this will be an interesting year...

first time I'll outshot by a mech :rolleyes:

I'll just play it as it comes, and hope that the rule is for the better

Podoz1

01-08-2009, 09:47 PM

I know this is going to sound bad but just hear me out. I bought a SD T-board for my spyder just this past year it can be capped at 15bps (and locked on semi at that and only semi). I have stayed true to that, and now I can stay true to the new rule(but the problem is proving it). The only way i could possibly adhear to this rule is to set my ramping speed to 10bps and do that becuase I can easily shoot 15+ with my "modded" trigger frame(especially witht my addrenaline pumping). But the problem with that is I can't lock the board on ramping only on semi (which is capped at 15pbs).

My only current employment is mowing lawns and seeing that it is winter I kind of can't do that. I do get an "allowence" but that doesn't take a chip off my paintball bill never the less buying a new e-board.

Now I'm stating this not just to plead my case but also others in my predicament.

cutstep

01-09-2009, 12:25 AM

let me state this up front so I dont have people thinking that I am upset by this... Im not, I just like playing paintball, I dont care if its with a slingshot, Im out in the woods having a good time and Im with people who are there for the same thing and I love that.

I think that the overshooting in big games is less high speed guns and more lots of people converging on one target, if two people are shooting 10bps at on target its really 20 bps hitting the target.... in reality during these games there are groups of five to ten people all firing on one target at times and you could have pumpers hitting 20 bps....

this rule may to plugging the dam after the flood. right now, most basic markers have been able to achieve faster speeds for six years or so now and there are lots of people out there that have used the same thing for years and years and may not want to switch or fiddle with their settings. there are also lots of people out there who arent like the dedicated scenariopiggers like us who are on here all the time and they will show up to the field not knowing about this and may have a hard time getting their gun legal (as per the many examples up this thread) and others who grumble about 'mechs being at an advantage' (they still dont have eyes and efficiency and all that so not to worry). my point is that I think at least for the first six months of the season you are likely to have a good deal of frustration from players. If this was something that was being adopted by fields all over the place (not speedball fields, they dont count ;))then it would be easier but I havent heard about any other fields looking at doing this.

the end of the month big games say that "These are high intensity! Not recommended for beginners!" maybe those games and the Giant Game should be uncapped semi only or 15 bps like people are used to.

now keep in mind that I dont have access to the data that Darrin is looking at and Im sure he is doing what he thinks is best for his business and the sport of paintball and I fully support whatever he decides, I just think that may cause some problems and dont want to have people frustrated. this may be something that is hard to enforce as well, imagine trying to figure out who is shooting fast during the Giant Game, especially if mechs can shoot faster and there are 750 people on the field.

just some thoughts, I dont want to ruffle feathers and I dont care how fast I am allowed to shoot my angel, I just want to have lots of people to shoot at ;)

xSH00TERx

01-09-2009, 09:42 PM

Good thing I just got a Rotor loader to feed 10BPSbangh:)

Erndogg

01-10-2009, 12:04 AM

MondoMor

01-10-2009, 12:23 PM

ok, so I just grabbed the manual for my Mini and I was looking at the modes and such. I dont think I can do 10bps setting. I think there is only a 10.5bps setting, is this going to be an issue espcially since the only hopper have is a Halo?

Contact Paintball Solutions (http://paintballsolutions.com/05pb_solutions/index.asp). There's probably a bunch of people with minis in the same boat.

If the Mini board is like the TM-7, the semi mode is capped at 20bps, ignoring the ramping/full auto cap.

With the TM-7, I'll be keeping the single trigger and TSA loader. It's hard to imagine anyone getting more than 10bps with that, but we'll see.

slick assasin

01-10-2009, 05:07 PM

ok, so I just grabbed the manual for my Mini and I was looking at the modes and such. I dont think I can do 10bps setting. I think there is only a 10.5bps setting, is this going to be an issue espcially since the only hopper have is a Halo?

Sounds like you need a new board then. J/K, I can't imagine they aren't going to let anyone with a stock mini play. If they did I think that would be the last time a lot of people played there.

I guess there is the other side though. If they let someone play with a marker capped at 10.5 it is technicaly against the rules so why couldn't someone else just say their marker can only be capped at 15?
I just see there being a lot of issues this season.

Erndogg

01-10-2009, 05:30 PM

Well I am going to wait and see what Darrin says. I am not going to spend any money or worry about it untill I hear the verdict from the hourses mouth it self so to speak.

EZD

01-10-2009, 06:37 PM

I will look into the mini and see what can be done.

As for the peolpe that come out to Splat Tag and have not read Splat Tag Basic Rules, I will have shake Hoppers they can use at no charge. And we will also have Rental Tippmanns for $10.

Erndogg

01-10-2009, 06:47 PM

Thalion

01-10-2009, 08:00 PM

I'm not worried about it - there's no way my TM7 with a single trigger can exceed 10 BPS on semi, regardless of the loader on it. The Viking can be capped to the proper rate, and well, everything else in the collection is perfectly fine (pump/pistol)

Sandman 26

01-10-2009, 08:54 PM

Thalion I think over 10bps is possible with a single trigger on semi, just need to tune it right. Shorten the pull quicken the return, add a lil bounciness to it.

Not saying you would do this, but saying that it is indeed possible.

I have a feeling a lot of this will still fall to honor system from individuals as with most every rule.

slick assasin

01-10-2009, 10:49 PM

I just read through my Mini manual and the mini's rof can only be set down to 10.5. I can see this being a real problem because there are a lot of people with stock minis and I'm sure there will be a lot of TM7s out there this year.
Honestly, you can't really make an exception to the 10bps rule for minis either or everyone else is going to want an exception. I also think there will be a lot of p.o'd people if they have to use a gravity feed hopper on their mini's. I have a rampage board in my mini so I can set my rof wherever I want, but I know not everyone can afford a new board. The rampage boards are relatively cheap, but they are stil about $75.

slick assasin

01-10-2009, 10:54 PM

Good thing I just got a Rotor loader to feed 10BPSbangh:)

Your rotor and my magna can hang out together in my gear bag since they can't play on the field.
What really sucks is my backup hopper is a Halo B V35. Looks like I might have to bust out the old TSA.

combatpaintball

01-15-2009, 06:51 PM

I have lots of things to say on this issue. i know this post is inreguards to splat tag but I do play there as well. I also have to come to darrins defence on a few comments.

One of the things I saw was a comment on the OVER CHARGING or High Mark up of paint.

When you buy that paint and or pay the BYOP fee. Some of that cost is going to things like Cost of land, taxes, insurrance, Marketing, Reffs, staff, TRASH CLEAN UP from the players that leave a mess, Compressors, CO2 upkeep of the equipment, trails, and field. And then when you are done with all that you have managers and yes all the time the owners as most owners I know put lots of time into there company. As I know Darrin has and does. If you did not have the BYOP fee or the paint at the prices they are the loss would have to come from some were. The field fee? The Registration? Or is it a trade cut the cost and have less reffs? Less staff to help you with issues, questions and organization? Most people done realize there are about two fields that come into our area and about two to three that leave every year mostly because they can not figure out how to manage and cover there cost and make enuff to make it worth all the time and money that they put into it.

My next thing is over shooting, Every one has an opinion on this one. Mine is from what I see and or experience. Number one reason I have seen is a player get shot not call him self out gets shot again still does not call him self out and then finaly gets shot at till he calls him self out then he complains that he was over shot whan half of the paint on him was from before he decided to call him self out. Second is a dumb, inexperienced, Or just got cought in an open area that was coverd by several players from the other team. Then the last that rearly happens but does is one player out of anger or intent over shoots some one and this type of player does not belong on the field. It is not the gun.

I have played a lot of speedball and woods ball even with my speedball I usualy only got hit once yea once with 15 balls a second comming at me. If you play well and dont leave a lot hanging out you usualy dont get lit up I used to think it would suck and how crazy it would be watching speedball having that many balls comming at you and how bad it would be to get hit then I played and it was a different case Even running from bunker to bunker in the open would only get hit one to three times.

As far as woods ball goes I look at it this way. I personaly play because it is some what like military tactics and is a lot like when I was in. Due to the fact that some players have fast guns some dont it is how you use them to get your objective. In the military we had Riflemen Equiv to some one with a stock tippman per say. also usualy not always less experienced. You have your Automatic gunner. Like per say some one with lots of paint and a fast gun. Then you have your pump guys. Like our snipers usualy experienced and play acordingly. With paintball you are not assigned to one of these you get to choose how you want to play and that may be limited by your budget. I started with a stock tipp I have a gun that I run semi caped at 15 because I can be both a Riflemen persay when I want to be and an automatic gunner when I need to fill a lane (trail or opening for woodsball) or to keep some one down so that the rest of the team can move.

Even with that I feel there should be a cap some were 30 bps is rediculous. I would say 15 is resonable. How every Derrin thinks 10 is resonble and if thats what he wants to have thats what it will be.

So with that in mind how do you regulate that? There are a lot of ideas out there. For thoes that have a mini yea the setting on the gun says 10.5 what does it say over the chronos? 10 or 11 dont know one that says 10.5 bps. So then would it be that be breaking the rules if your gun says 10.5 but the chrono's used to regulate it says 10? With reactive triggers and and the ability to set triggers for mechanical triggers how do you regulate them?

I personaly dont care if my gun is set at 10 and there are mechanicals out there shooting faster I just play accordingly and adjust my tactics to what I run into.

Im not going to stop playing I love the sport and will find ways to face the challanges given bassed on the rules of the scenario and or field etc....

I will keep my eye on the post and rule changes so that I can be prepared in advance as well as make sure i am not out there un knowingly breaking any rules.

Looking forward to Hunt for the Cure! If you have not gone to it in the past you are missing out!

Sarge

01-15-2009, 07:20 PM

My next thing is over shooting, Every one has an opinion on this one. Mine is from what I see and or experience. Number one reason I have seen is a player get shot not call him self out gets shot again still does not call him self out and then finaly gets shot at till he calls him self out then he complains that he was over shot whan half of the paint on him was from before he decided to call him self out. Second is a dumb, inexperienced, Or just got cought in an open area that was coverd by several players from the other team. Then the last that rearly happens but does is one player out of anger or intent over shoots some one and this type of player does not belong on the field. It is not the gun.

I have played a lot of speedball and woods ball even with my speedball I usualy only got hit once yea once with 15 balls a second comming at me. If you play well and dont leave a lot hanging out you usualy dont get lit up I used to think it would suck and how crazy it would be watching speedball having that many balls comming at you and how bad it would be to get hit then I played and it was a different case Even running from bunker to bunker in the open would only get hit one to three times.

QFT
I'm also a reff and that's what I always see. After reading this thread I'd say that 12 BPS would be sufficient.