View Full Version : Arden Hills Ammo Plant
Vander
03-09-2009, 10:14 AM
Has anyone heard that the old ammo plant (96 and Hwy 10 in Arden Hills) is going to be demolished and turned into a County or State Park?
Maybe some of you influential paintball people here in Minnesota could make some noise and see if there are any plans for turning those old buildings into a municipal paintball park (much like the municipal skate parks....)
...maybe with the gates, the old fences, and the old military feel of the place a large national scenario could be set up there.... Daaaarreeeeeeeen? :D
Yes? No?
I might start making some phone calls... city hall might like the idea of a national event drawing revenue into the area. I'd like to at least try.
Any thoughts?
Thalion
03-09-2009, 10:48 AM
It's a long shot, but I like your thinking.
Biggest issue (aside from getting them to agree to it) would be the safety - generating the course in such a way that no paint will exit the complex and that there can be safe staging areas. I'd honestly have to see the place in person to know how well it could be done.
As far as the convincing goes - does anyone have the official injury statistics of paintball? We can use that to respond to potential liability issues (mainly that paintball is safer than skateboarding).
My biggest concern is all the inevitable red-tape; it is the government after all.
I'd be willing to throw some effort to this, but I don't think it's a promising battle to win.
Vander
03-09-2009, 11:04 AM
Haha... so maybe I'm not so crazy, huh?
THIS (http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=rhff59771dt1&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=6021516&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1) is the building that I was most intrigued by.
I think it's worth some hype, at least... With government, numbers is confidence. The more people that call and ask about this, the more they are going to take it seriously. Business owners, and paintball club leaders (ones that smell like pelicans, maybe) would be influential as well.
Scan around the area here....
Check it out! (http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=45.088717~-93.175821&style=h&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=6021453&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1)
I have try twice over the year and both time told "NO"
Erndogg
03-09-2009, 12:16 PM
TCAAP has been moving a lot of troops through their latly. It is effectivly 1 mile from where I work. In fact this weekend, they just shipped out another group.
Last I heard, once its closed, they where going to turn it into a new housing development, with some sort of park in it. I have also heard they were going to turn it inso some sort of park in general.
I do know the wild life in that area is pretty thick. Every fall they host a youth bow hunting event.
I like the idea. I would go, if it were to ever happen, how ever, I doubt it. The only chace one might have to get that passed, is to offer a significant amount of change, and buy the land.
Vander
03-09-2009, 12:43 PM
Heh... It's about a mile from where I work too.
Darren, did they give any reasons why? Or just a flat out "no"..?
Is it the good ol' liabilities issue? ...an answer given before anyone even calls the insurance company? haha...
Carlito
03-09-2009, 12:46 PM
Don't forget to mention that if it was used for paintball it could be a great training area for local law enforcement and Army and Marine reservists. I'd love to play a full urban environment.
JJohnson
03-09-2009, 12:56 PM
Haha... so maybe I'm not so crazy, huh?
THIS (http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=rhff59771dt1&style=b&lvl=1&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=6021516&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1) is the building that I was most intrigued by.
I think it's worth some hype, at least... With government, numbers is confidence. The more people that call and ask about this, the more they are going to take it seriously. Business owners, and paintball club leaders (ones that smell like pelicans, maybe) would be influential as well.
Scan around the area here....
Check it out! (http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&FORM=LMLTCP&cp=45.088717~-93.175821&style=h&lvl=15&tilt=-90&dir=0&alt=-1000&scene=6021453&phx=0&phy=0&phscl=1&encType=1)
dribble:) That would be awesome to play in!
Vander
03-09-2009, 01:07 PM
Don't forget to mention that if it was used for paintball it could be a great training area for local law enforcement and Army and Marine reservists.
I'm sure that everyone just goes to Ripley still. I know that I trained alongside with MN LE agencies often while I was there.
evolkers2003
03-09-2009, 03:25 PM
Not gonna lie it would be pretty sweet to play in that building, i would go if it ever happened!
*mess*Chain_gang
03-09-2009, 03:49 PM
Always thought of playing in there never really heard much about it. It's like 5 miles away from my school and house to.
Oracle
03-09-2009, 05:35 PM
I think its a long shot, but you guys should definately go for it! It would be great for urban style games.
Saint
03-09-2009, 07:30 PM
That place looks amazing!
*mess*Chain_gang
03-09-2009, 10:04 PM
I could like walk there to! It would be fun to play in there
Haha... Business owners, and paintball club leaders (ones that smell like pelicans, maybe)
LOL, ShEEEEEEEsh, actually Pelicans do Smell, but they are Cute and eat small Pets.:rolleyes:
I've been reading your Posts here on the subject and in my view dealing with Gov't Lands and Properties is a waste of time. I've had dealt with the Two Federal Agencies owned property neighboring my property for a few years now to no avail. From what I have learned from them or those that represent these Agencies is, there is no Profitable Reason for them to Allow what we ask. But, also what I know is, if you can convince them that it was thier Idea, There may be a Chance, but very Slight.:(
If anyone was to pitch a proposal to a Paintball site in the Parks future plans, I surely would not introduce it as a Military one. What may have a chance is possibly a Minn. State Paintball League Site. Urban setup of course. These are just my Opinions, not to say that I am right or that there is no Chance at all. But if things were to develop for the oppurtunity to pitch such a proposal, I would surely Help Out./AKA
Vander
03-10-2009, 10:43 AM
I would surely Help Out./AKA
Hey Tim!
Good points all around... I was thinking of exploiting that act of vandalism that occurred in Shoreview (maybe a block from the Reserve Center). That act of vandalism cost the city like $100,000 to fix from what I am told.
Here in one incentive for the city at least (similar to a skate park pitch). Allow teens to play at the facility to encourage a non-destructive venue to release their teen angst...With adult guidance, paintball can be a constructive way to outlet teen rebellion.
I dunno... too cheesy?
Krutsie
03-10-2009, 10:59 AM
I know , Offer up a challenge to Ft Macoy. All of us Paintballers against everything the Army Has. do a training exersize. We have taken over the complex and the Army comes with helicopters and troops to stop us. do video and publisize it as a training exersice.
Badger
03-10-2009, 12:03 PM
I'm agreeing with AKA on this. This is more than likely a waste of your time.
The closest the Militia ever got to something like this was when we helped train a SWAT team down in Northfield. They asked us, not the other way around. Ever since, we've been hounding any LE agency that would remotely listen to us, and got nothing in response.
The closest we ever got to playing at that facility in Shoreview was our sponsor Rick from CC Military having some INs with people, but even then that got shut down because they put it in lockdown.
Your main problem is going to be insurance hazard. Also, they're not hip to large numbers showing up to do this. When we were asked to come down to Northfield, I was told specifically to keep it with low numbers. They didn't want more than 12 showing up.
Also, they were skittish with using paintballers to go against them, because for the most part, paintballers aren't re-enactors. Typically the mental aspect is, "I kicked a cop's arse!!!" The paintballers in their past didn't play as though paintballs are bullets. I had to really assure them that the Militia were different. I then had to MANDATE with my team that we would play with honor and respect to paintballs as though they were real bullets, too.
If you can get past all that, AND the MOUNDS of red tape that you're going to have to deal with when you go up to the city council, THEN you miiiiiiight have a chance at pulling this off. Also, know that this would only be a one-shot deal. You would not get multiple chances at playing there.
Just being realistic...
Badger beret:)
WreckingCrew
03-10-2009, 12:21 PM
I have actually been in a few of those buildings when i was in the NG and they are in such a state of disrepair that imo it would be way to dangerous to host any type of event at that location too bad thou because it would be a cool location for a urban game
Thalion
03-10-2009, 01:02 PM
I have actually been in a few of those buildings when i was in the NG and they are in such a state of disrepair that imo it would be way to dangerous to host any type of event at that location too bad thou because it would be a cool location for a urban game
That information is a missing element I was unaware of. Good to know.
Krutsie
03-10-2009, 01:36 PM
Thats why I love this Forum. We have Players from all Venues and Levels of play. I learn something on here every time I log on.
WreckingCrew
03-10-2009, 09:08 PM
They are actually in the process of tearing down all the buildings that are not in use anymore as well
I do know what your saying Vander and all those with hopes of something new and differant for us to enjoy shooting each other up. But I don't see something like this as being a real need for us to continue ejoying what we do. But don't get me wrong, I'm all for playing in a large Urban Game, but I don't think it would be my every weekend type travel Game. If we keep splitting up the Players that our area has, into another Group or style of Paintball for Players to go, then the Woods and Indoor Fields we now have would surely suffer in Numbers.:o
Now if someone were able to swing a Game a year or two in such a setting I would be all over it for sure. So maybe that is where we should focus for getting that Big Urban Scenario. Insurance and Liabilities and Clean up for a day once or twice a Year may be more do-able than an year round facility.;)
We that are getting old and Paintball's end is getting nearer, do care about Paintballs future. So I think we need to keep working on Keeping what we have so Those fields don't disappear and leave us and the Players to come, wondering where did we Go wrong. I just think City or Govt. run facilities will not have as much care for its future as a Private and Ballers themselves owned, would.;) Maybe I'm Off, but its what I think./AKA
Vander
03-11-2009, 07:51 AM
Yeah...
I'm starting to see it too.
If those buildings are is such disrepair... eh.
I'll still e-mail them and see what happens. In the satellite picture there are other buildings on the North end. I'll just see what they say.
Ravenwood
03-11-2009, 06:50 PM
The MMPT trained with the Northfield swat team in a old hospital before demo, maynbe that's the pitch, I think it would make a great training area for the metro swat team / PD. Just my two cents.
Rogue
03-12-2009, 05:09 PM
There is also the concern of health safety. Ammo plants have several hazardous materials leeched into the structure. I think Arsenic is a concern.
Did everyone miss my post, I've tried renting this place twice and it was a flat out NO.
There is a very long list for the NO.
Uncle Sam said 110% No.
It does not hurt to wish, I have been driving by that place for 20 years.
*mess*Chain_gang
03-12-2009, 08:52 PM
I have been for 14 almost 15 years now I feel young
Vander
03-13-2009, 08:29 AM
I have been for 14 almost 15 years now I feel young
I may have stains on a pair of pants that are older than you... haha.
Yeah... I just want to see what they say. I e-mailed them simply asking if that area was transitioning ownership (Federal to City Gov)... they haven't even replied to that yet.
Vander
03-16-2009, 05:47 PM
UPDATE:
I've corresponded to the City Admin a couple of times.
He's not put off to the idea at all, actually. I pitched a different plan than using the buildings, and he is inviting me to follow the planning process a bit.
Soooo... how many of you guys are still interested? I may need petition signers later on; especially people that live in the area.
Hmmmm! Very Interesting.:D Well keep up the Good work Vander. Keep us Posted when the list Begins.:cool:/AKA
JJohnson
03-16-2009, 07:28 PM
I don't live in the area, but I'd be very interested in going to play there.:D
Thalion
03-16-2009, 08:18 PM
UPDATE:
I've corresponded to the City Admin a couple of times.
He's not put off to the idea at all, actually. I pitched a different plan than using the buildings, and he is inviting me to follow the planning process a bit.
Soooo... how many of you guys are still interested? I may need petition signers later on; especially people that live in the area.
What exactly did you pitch? Now I'm curious.
I wouldn't say I'm opposed to it, but I'm not sure I want to put too much effort into something Darrin says is doomed to fail - he's been in paintball long enough to usually be right about such things.
My hopes aren't high, but hey, if you want people that would promote the idea, I'll help. I just don't expect it to go far.
*mess*Chain_gang
03-16-2009, 08:52 PM
Tell me when you need names and people to sign a pettion(sp?)
MondoMor
03-16-2009, 09:17 PM
I'll happily sign any petition, too!
Vander
03-17-2009, 08:54 AM
What exactly did you pitch? Now I'm curious.
I wouldn't say I'm opposed to it, but I'm not sure I want to put too much effort into something Darrin says is doomed to fail - he's been in paintball long enough to usually be right about such things.
My hopes aren't high, but hey, if you want people that would promote the idea, I'll help. I just don't expect it to go far.
Manipulating a bureaucratic system has nothing to do with paintball, really... :D
My parents are heavily involved in politics and have held public office in the past. I have a BA in Communication Studies with 6 years of messing with people's minds working in LE, and now I work in the Corporate world where understanding what motivates people is what gets you ahead (I gotz skillz) :D
But like you said... let's not be celebrating yet. According to Ron, they are not yet at the point of programming the recreational areas back there. It may be quite a while. I was just hoping to put this on everyone's radar; spread the word. The more that people ask about municipal paintball, the more of an influence it will have on the city officials.
I bet that we are looking at years before anything happens.... but keep the dream alive! :)
Vander
03-17-2009, 01:27 PM
Check this out:
LINK (http://www.ci.arden-hills.mn.us/vertical/Sites/{376A25A1-53F5-4768-BB37-F5FF4BC3A716}/uploads/{93A9900F-0FEE-44E5-8B98-0A4B7B7934F0}.PDF)
"Potential Athletic Fields" is where a municipal paintball field COULD go.
We'll see.
Darrin
03-17-2009, 03:26 PM
Vander
From what I understand the US government has not agreed to get rid of this land.
I have heard the city plan is a dream and has no US government backing.
http://www.ci.arden-hills.mn.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7B2779F066-74CF-422B-98C3-F7592A69DCF9%7D
No date or even a year has ever been set for the City to take over the land??
Only Congress can release this land to be sold and no bill to do so is even in the plans.
Maybe I am not up-to-date on this. Please bring me up to speed.
My girlfriend live blocks from this location.
It is a great dream.
Krutsie
03-17-2009, 04:12 PM
Girlfriends? you Devil you.... Just Kidding. We knew what you ment Darrin.
*mess*Chain_gang
03-17-2009, 04:33 PM
Vander
From what I understand the US government has not agreed to get rid of this land.
I have heard the city plan is a dream and has no US government backing.
http://www.ci.arden-hills.mn.us/index.asp?Type=B_BASIC&SEC=%7B2779F066-74CF-422B-98C3-F7592A69DCF9%7D
No date or even a year has ever been set for the City to take over the land??
Only Congress can release this land to be sold and no bill to do so is even in the plans.
Maybe I am not up-to-date on this. Please bring me up to speed.
My girlfriend live blocks from this location.
It is a great dream.
What a ladies man
Vander
03-17-2009, 05:34 PM
Darrin,
That's the link that I have been looking at too. Would you be interested in attending the next RAB meeting on April 6th? Maybe we can get questions answered....?
darkwraith
04-10-2009, 05:14 PM
hmm thatd be interesting to see. I know we (nat guard) still use arden hills for various things, though i dont really know whats up with that area you pointed out. everything ive used is more to the east of there. they use it sometimes for land nav and we store our humvees and some other vehicles there. i hadnt heard anything about them doing anything to the area, though ive been stuck here in iraq for the past year. at least ill be home for the season!
Alphawolf
04-10-2009, 10:54 PM
That would be an awsome venue to play at. Let me know once the land is released from Federal control about what needs you have to take a crack at this.
smkeillor
04-12-2009, 09:36 PM
I would sign something too along with lots of my freinds.I would rather walk a SHORT distance than go to Minneapolis to play paintball
Drednaught X
05-07-2009, 12:43 AM
Yah, its an interesting place, but a lot of the buildings need work. Air quality is not the best, there is stuff all over in some. But that big building in the earlyer links would be a decent place. The ventalation woul need some work. (its stuffy and full of bird poo) I would love to see a feild in the area though
SpyderSniper
06-09-2009, 02:41 PM
yeah, I could get a couple of people to sign a petition if someone could get it started.
Vander
06-22-2009, 09:29 AM
Check this out...
http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2009/06/22/ammunition_plant_meeting/
Here's an opportunity for your voice to be heard! The meeting is TONIGHT!
nchittendon
06-22-2009, 09:29 PM
I've always thought about this with the Badger Ammunition plant down there between the Dells and Madison.......